Here’s Hawkins’ post that Janette was commenting on:
May 25, 2019 at 3:36 pm
Chris, thanks for taking this up – been meaning to ask you about it. I’ve been jousting with these people for a while on their FB group – Tom Padgett, Paul Fassa, Alanzo, Cheryl Stokes, Janette Allen. Alanzo was one of Rathbun’s biggest supporters, and carries on Rathbun’s narrative about the “Anti-Scientology Cult.” Their entire worldview seems to be based on their dislike of Mike Rinder as former head of OSA – the reason they deny that brainwashing is a real thing is that it gives Rinder an “out,” and they refuse to believe that Rinder could ever be a victim of anything. So they have to deny that brainwashing is a thing. It is very hard to pierce through their fixed ideas. The irony of course is that Marty was far more abusive than Mike, as anyone who was there knows”
Here’s Janette’s response:
“Jefferson, for me “my entire worldview” is not as you’ve said – and this isnt about Marty vs Mike. I dont dislike Mike, Marty, Cook or anyone else – i just dont respect them or hold their opinions of any value.
“The us vs them viewpoint is what got us all in this mess in the first place – scns vs psychiatry, thetan vs his bank, scns vs the sps blah blah. US vs Them is perfect war scenarios.’
“Funny though from what I can see that is what it’s about with most of you ex sea org – still an us vs mentality going strong, couple that with using people for own personal agendas disregarding their well being (exploiting & revictimizing) , censorship/blocking on certain groups (disconnection & information control), no critical questions allowed about legit criminal cases, a nonprofit formed & lots of donations coming in all in “the name of help” & not transparent – selling books, tshirts, bobbleheads lol…Hmmm if it walks like a duck & quacks like a duck…’
Another us vs them scenario where sides are taken. I side with Truth & Justice for the real victims & those still being victimized by this sick twisted war!
“I dont deny brainwashing or manipulation occurs…I just believe its NOT an Excuse for behavior. At the end of the day we all have a choice & All ex sea org as well as parishinors must take responsibility for their own choices & accountability for their actions! I chose what i chose cuz i thought it was for my & my families best survival- we got hoodwinked…religion” the oldest trick in the book.’
“Brainwashing is not an excuse for choosing to take a job that ruins peoples lives as head of OSA & doing that job for over 20 years. Brainwashing is no excuse for gouging people of their life savings, inheritance $ etc. Brainwashing is no excuse for putting up with working 14-20 hour work days & eating rice & beans as punishment, brainwashing is no excuse for neglecting children of the presence of their parents & a loving nurturing family life – brainwashing is no excuse for covering up sexual abuse. Its NOT a valid or justifiable reason! I will not excuse people of these appalling actions when I myself was in that community for 25 years and would NEVER have done or allowed those things. I know plenty of ex sea org who were also in for just as long & never would have allowed or done those things. It’s no excuse!!!’
“I’m sorry but little ole redneck me was involved in clwr scn group for over 25 years. I always stood my ground – nobody “made” me do anything I didnt want to do. The claim Chris makes about being “made” to do endless hours of manual labor, being “made” to sit in a room to write up transgressions etc. Nobody tied anyone up and “made” them do anything. I told sea org and other parishinors to fuck off on the daily – my best friend threatened to disconnect from me cause I refused to do another course – I said see ya!’
“At 19 I was put in a room with 6 sea org & crushed regged to join s.o. – I told them all to fuck off and got up & walked out. Sorry nobody made anyone do anything. We all had choices & we all are accountable for our choices & our actions. Brainwashing is no excuse! Theres something in it for people otherwise they wouldnt make the choices they do / did and that gets down to what a person is made of – character, morals, values, personalities – ya know the core who the hell are you & what are you made of kind of stuff.”
And another Ex Scientologist, Angela Marie LeMay, weighed in:
I personally don’t buy the brainwashed excuse either.
I mean Mike was reportedly in “the hole” from around 2004-2007. During that time he admittedly witnessed the abuses and abused others himself.
He and many other Ex-So have also admitted to seeing abuses prior to the hole.
Yet in 2007 ( the dusk of his SO career) he was pulled out of the hole and sent off to defend the church against abuse claims to John Sweeney at BBC.
But when that didn’t get him back into the good grace’s of DM, he was sent off to do hard labor in England. So, he then decided to leave
(Which I don’t blame him)
But, that sounds like self preservation to me, not like someone who was being brainwashed and under mind control.
The whole thing reminds of the movie, ‘Lord of the Flies”.
And while I can understand possibly thinking that things would change but standing by year after year for 20 + years and doing nothing, while you were inside, to change it.
SO Members were supposed to keep ethics and justice in.
At least, that’s what us lowly parishioners were told.
Mike was the director of OSA.
He for sure knew about many flaps and abuses. Yet he continued to be a polished spokesperson lying and defending the church against abuse claims.
But he was never so brainwashed as to get out when it was evident that his own neck was a stake.
For me personally (as a parishioner) when I started hearing about the abuses that had been occurring for years and started reading about it on the internet (Marty’s site), I decided to leave. I didn’t want any part of it. Even though I had 20 years invested and my whole life built around that community, I left. As a result, I was spied on, I lost my houses my business and all my business connections.
But I’ve been blessed because I managed to keep my family and my integrity.
I think the Chris Sheltons, Mike Rinders, Aaron Smith levins of the world have no remorse for their hand in the true “aftermath” effect of their actions. While some got paid off, others got book deals etc. All in the name of self-preservation.
The worst of it is that instead of being transparent and simply answering questions (that don’t fit their narrative) on blogs and groups, they resort to banning, blocking and black PRing any old-timer who dares to question.
So, I understand why they are being called the Anti- Scn Cult. They’re deploying the same tactics they used in the church.”