ESMB's Nurse RatchetLast night, Michelle Sterling of ESMB had an announcement to make.

She said everyone needed to know this about me:

Michelle Sterling of ESMB on Alanzo

Michelle Sterling has known me since early 2007 when I began posting to her Ex-Scientologist Message Board (ESMB). We talked quite a bit, back-channel, on the phone, and online. We were great friends between that time and 2011.

Kevin Mackey, ESMB’s 2nd in command at that time, told me that the ESMB rule that I violated at the time of my first banning – the violation which got me banned – was telling Dave Gibbons, “PandaTermint”, to “Fuck Off”.

There was quite a build-up to that event, of course. I had begun to see a pattern of vicious cruelty and hypocrisy in that group. There was a lot of back-channel scheming against other critics and Exes that you had to swear secrecy to. I watched Michelle ban and discredit a string of over a dozen ex-scientologists, Indies, and critics in the most heartless and cruel way during those 4 years. And then she would continue to do her best to use her message board to discredit them after she had banned them.

In the end, I realized at the time that ESMB was probably the worst place for an Ex-Scientologist to come to after being in the Church.

The Events Just Prior to Getting Myself Banned From ESMB

For those 4 years prior, before this pattern of hers had become apparent to me, I admired Michelle’s judgment and intelligence, and her insight on all kinds of issues.

After her house was raided by the Melbourne police department in 2010, and her computers were confiscated, and she was under threat of criminal charges for being a member of Anonymous – and the custody of her child was threatened – I did what I could to remain an ally for her. But no matter what I did, Michelle and I began to drift apart.

Michelle experienced the worst Scientology Fair Game I’ve ever seen anyone experience, and her demeanor and decision-making changed drastically after that. That experience militarized her. Her cruelty and her scheming dead-agent campaigns on other Exes and critics increased dramatically after she was fair gamed.

Michelle and I still communicated for a few months after I was banned. She told me something that her husband Ian had said about me.

Here’s what Michelle told me at that time.

You don’t think about relationships as much as you think about principles.
This was something I’d never consciously considered about myself. But when she said it, I realized it was probably true. I’ve since thought about it a lot. I even wrote this blog post about what she said to me, 6 years later.

So when she made her announcement about me to all 1956 members of SPs-R-Us last night, I figured I’d better read it.

I’ve thought about what she said – the difference between “my truth” and “my audience”.

And…

It may take me another 6 years to figure this one out.

Or not. I can’t tell yet.

Thanks.

Alanzo

Post Script: Michelle has continued to make announcements about what people should think about me on SPs-r-Us. This morning I saw this comment from her.

So maybe you can see why it is that Michelle and I are no longer friends. And with these kinds of cruel Scientology-style dead agenting campaigns that she has waged against dozens of other Ex-Scientologists and critics over the years, you can see why I don’t believe she is a healthy person for anyone to be around after Scientology. She doesn’t discuss, or even criticize, ideas. She assassinates characters. Because of this, I believe that she is especially unhealthy for someone who is emerging from the Church of Scientology and seeking solace and help after their experiences there.

I believe that ESMB – under Michelle Sterling’s influence – is just about the last place anyone should go after Scientology.

So yeah. I got myself banned from ESMB.

Gladly.

Now maybe you can see why.

94 Comments

  1. Richard

    Michelle and Helluvahoax don’t give people enough credit for their observational abilities. I already know Alanzo is a fraud. I just don’t mention it too often since I don’t want to get banned.

    Also, when I first started reexamining my scn experience, Alanzo gave me a lot of worthwhile feedback. Granted, that was almost two years ago when Alanzo was still sane and a scn hater. Now he’s stuck with a hanger-on. I’m a stat.

  2. Virginia McClaughry

    Yep. I see it, Alanzo.

    Question: During those scheming behind-the-scenes things you had to swear secrecy to, did we (or our family) ever come up?

  3. Marco

    Alanzo – The Ex Scientologist has been traumatized. They were “re-wired” when they were in the cult. Unless they deprogram – they will suffer from that “re wiring”. There is help out there – check out Margaret Singer You tube videos on cult recovery. It takes 12 years to recover from cults – if you recover at all. One has to work at getting rid of the “implants” Mind control works when standardly applied.

  4. Marco

    “hate and fighting” are side effects of Scientology. Buddhists don’t do this – they have the eight fold path….meditation should soothe and comfort hurt feelings….forgive and move on.

  5. Claire M Swazey

    A couple thoughts: Michelle, like most people, doesn’t like being discussed and criticized. I wish she’d have kept that fact (about people not liking it) in mind on some occasions, but it is what it is. So that’s why she wrote about you on FB. This blog post will likely be hurtful to her.

    The other is that I honestly don’t think she has much of a bias against indies and FZers. I know that things on ESMB have not been pleasant for them and I could give you my theories on it but that’s a post best saved for another thread or never. I do not think Michelle wants to target or go after those who practice Scn -or $cn- outside Cof$.

  6. Claire M Swazey

    Ever since I stumbled onto the critic’s scene, I’ve felt that the enemy of my enemy thing is a good guiding principle.

    I think that when we’re all against CofS that this should suffice. Unhappily, though, it does not. And people (like Shanic69) have told me I’m wrong on that. Then they proceed to hurt each other. This one’s too moderate, this one has no personal beef with this or that practice, this one is a FZer, this one wouldn’t say this or that.

    It’s madness. Or it’s Sparta- I always get those two mixed up.

    But I think that this is a benchmark that should be utilized and I mourn the fact that it has not.

  7. Alanzo

    Not that I remember.

  8. Alanzo

    LOL. You’re just a stat to me. I just want your comments so that it appears I have a lot of people visiting my blog.

    It’s all about stats and status.

  9. Alanzo

    I’m a horrible Buddhist.

  10. Marco

    How come you don’t post all of my comments? I think being in Phase II – Independent Scientology is a comfortable place for some ex cult members to hang out. It is a phase of leaving the cult that some hover in and may get stuck in it. In order to go free – one must go all the way down the rabbit hole….and just look at the truth about L Ron Hubbard’s real life, the lies he told, his involvement with Aleistar Crowley and OTO – his 3 failed marriages and shattering of his own family…etc… I do agree with Helluvahoax – “Hubbard’s Law of Commotions” contradict and confuse. It is better to throw away Scientology and use other stuff L Ron copied it from anyway.

  11. Marco

    Unknowingly Alanzo – you are a horrible Buddhist.

    Scientology re wires the Brain to be “us against them”

    It was programmed into our minds.

    I am not saying it is easy – I struggle too.

    but – use the “tech” that worked for you…

    Notice it – make a new choice

    Love conquers all

    The ex members are suffering – lend them a hand
    Throw some compassion and love their way

    But first grasshopper – throw it your way….and forgive yourself for being a victim of Scientology

  12. statpush

    What people like Michelle fail to realize is that Scnists and Ex-Scnists (and everything in-between), are simply trying to find their own way. No one truly knows me like I do. My needs and wants change, sometimes daily.

    It’s been three years since I was declared. Am I over it? Well, no, not entirely. I wouldn’t be posting this if I were. And that’s okay.

    What interests me and what I write about changes; it evolves.

    I firmly BELIEVE, you get yourself into Scn, and you get yourself out of Scn. Those are two rather nebulous concepts, and mean different things to different people. Rarely is it black and white.

    For me, I am OUT of Scn (as it exists today) – never to return. That much I am certain of.

    I shed the spiritual and mental straightjacket the day I left. Why would I look for another?

  13. Richard

    I began participating on the blogs with Alanzo’s “4 Steps to Stop Thinking and Feeling With Scientology” post. Alanzo had invented his own “process” to help people purge themselves of evil scio-thinking. laughter
    I didn’t use his process but was still able to separate fact from fiction and truths from half-truths. I was surprised at how much scn indoctrination and programming I’d unconsciously carried forward.
    I still like and use some scn descriptions and terminology. For example, when I get thinking about too many things at once, the idea of being “Buttered all over the Universe” comes to mind. It keeps me in perspective. 🙂

  14. Richard

    Random thoughts

    Some people like Gib say they sometimes don’t understand banter or satire on the blogs. In high school I had a good friend who would believe almost any tall tale we’d tell him. Some people might say he was gullible, but then again he might just be a trusting person. I think a lot of ex scn-ists were trusting people.

    A fellow named ThetaClear once said on Alanzo’s blog “Most of us were intellectual adolescents when we entered Scientology, having little or no background in science, religion or philosophy.” I fit that category.

    If it was my destiny to join a cult, at least I picked one of the best. People who write books about cults rank scn high on the list, right up there with the Unification Church (Moonies) and others. As the old song said “I hold my freak flag high”. (in the song that was relating to being a stoned out hippy) laughter

  15. The Oracle

    Peter Griffiths manages SP’s R Us. But Toys R Us is pure Americana so, the idea came from from this continent. Peter did the cartoon of You on “Natterblog”, the web site mocked up (it was a team effort) to fair game you, me, and Monique Rathbun. Clearly the purpose of the site was to invent enemies and they were seeking an audience of haters just to from a hate club with the three of us as targets. But the blog was not Emma’s , it is maintained by someone else. Emma was used as the face (and set up to take all of the hits) and Peter Griffiths and other (who I have never crossed paths in my life) joined in to get a site up that would damage if not destroy my career. The thing is, these people are prompted to attack others. Set up as targets. While the producers stay in the shadows. They don’t realize they are being stirred up and set on fire and launched to destroy other people’s lives. If they were not getting stirred up by others, they would not have attention on us as these attacks come from out of left field. When Peter and Michelle jumped in to create the web site purposed to destroy my career, and take covert aim at my children have less as a result, they don’t think about fact they have kids too. They have careers too. And actually through their actions, they are being used to prompt me to retaliate and do the same damages back on their lives. And the people using them just as they do not care about my life, do not care about theirs. Peter used to me with a group called “The Spitfire Boys” later, “The White Boys” and “The White Brothers”. They recorded a 45 in Germany called “Mein Kampf”. Emma’s details about her employment are all over the net and her daughter’s life is laid out on Facebook. That she and Peter recklessly set a match to my life by contributing to a web site that all of my clients can see , while they have their own lives and children laid out for anyone to attack, they take advantage of the fact that I am not willing to do the same thing to their family and reputation, they are willing to do to mine. And they do not think about the fact that the people exploiting them to destroy me, are setting them and their family up too for losses, would I retaliate. It is sad they gamble their own reputations and careers, and children’s well being, for the opportunity to harm people they don’t even know. But this is telling of just how far someone can push them and stir them up. If you can’t care about them, you can care about their kids and family who they effect, and try to take responsibility for them. Because other people around them are setting them up for losses. It is best to just keep it moving. They are just being exploited and set up for looses, right along side us. And by responding at all, you are playing into the hands of the hands that guide them. And it really places you in the same boat they float in.

  16. The Oracle

    What I’m saying is the same people using Emma and Peter as weapons, to destroy our careers, family, reputation, those same people do not care any more Emma and Peter, than they care about us. Otherwise they would not be firing them as weapons and setting them up as targets.

  17. The Oracle

    There are people that are masters at thought control, exploiting others, and profiting off of other people’s misery. And they manage to set everyone else up for the losses.

  18. The Oracle

    Laughter!

  19. The Oracle

    Beyond that Alanzo, you are “squirreling” if you change the conversation. That’s how deep it goes.

  20. Alanzo

    Yes, but I took years of Emma’s attacks without responding and now I’ve decided that I’m going to respond every single time. That’s just how it’s going to be from now on.

    Are you sure that Pete Griffiths worked on Emma’s Hate site? I would expect Michelle Sterling to do that, because I saw her do things like that for years. But I thought Pete was more humane than that.

    What makes you think that Pete Griffiths worked on that site?

    I’d like to know who was posting as “Alanzo” on that site. At first I thought it was funny. But then it got really sick and twisted. And the fact that Michelle Sterling set up a whole website solely to destroy the characters and livelihoods of other people is very telling about the type of person she is.

    But that’s how she used ESMB while she was running it, as well. So what do you expect I guess.

    “What’s the purpose of a website, Michelle?”

    CLANG! CLANG!! R/S!! R/S!!

    If you want to know who the targets were, the tag cloud says everything:

  21. Claire M Swazey

    I am sorry you went through that. People on the internet tend to not always see others as human beings whom they may be affecting with their posts.

  22. Alanzo

    Those are all beliefs about Cults and about Scientology, Marco. They’re not facts.

    And part of what I am learning now, as I embrace my Apostasy, is that those beliefs about the power of Scientology to determine your own thoughts and actions get pretty hysterical among Exes. Yes, it had an effect on you, and yes they tried and tried to get you to dramatize Scientology without thinking.

    But the route to overcoming all that is simply never giving them that power.

    These hysterical beliefs about the POWER of the BRAINWASHING in Scientology also create blaming victims. I’m not saying that the Church is not A cause, but as StatPush said, you get yourself into Scientology and you get yourself out of it, too. That is the primary cause.

    Enough time and life has passed under me now to realize that a lot of the things I was blaming my time in Scientology for were actually my own doing.

    So I’m done with the hysterics from anti-cult evangelists. If 12 years has passed and you are still blaming Scientology for ANYTHING in your life, then you are the problem – not Scientology.

  23. The Oracle

    Well, if you are going to respond to every attack, you are allowing someone else to shape shift you into an enemy condition anytime they want. They are then in control of your conditions. I just can’t surrender control like that. I do think this is the biblical wisdom behind “turn the other cheek”. It was not about martyrdom, it was about not surrendering control. Or power over yourself.

    When you do that, you just become a puppet. And what I am saying is, this is what happens to Emma. I do not think she is an evil being and originally, ESMB was not created to destroy. I would just let the latest (and subsequent) declares go by. The Scientology culture habits die hard and publishing declares is tradition. These are in fact gas lighting. Every piece of golden rod I ever looked at was gas lighting. The “group comm evs” go on every day on these Facebook pages and on Tony Ortega’s blog. Some people are addicted to “group justice” cycles. But now they are filled with psychiatric evaluations such as, the one above on you. It’s a psychiatric evaluation.

    Almost everywhere I look in the conversations outside of the Church, it is basically a comm ev in session. Some folk were obviously hooked into the Scientology justice systems line and sinker. If you know about something real that happened, just inform. But these sessions go on sometimes for days and weeks and threads. Who is guilty and why and each person wants to write their own little declare somewhere. It’s become a form of entertainment for many people. And it gives them an identity. “I am the one putting ethics in on the planet”.

    Since Karen De La Carriere and Jeffrey Augustine have devoted their lives to bounty hunting, and most of these folks on media lines fall under their command, under their lieutenant Tony Ortega, the thirty five years Karen spent in the Church of Scientology is not something that can be left behind in identity. I had had enough when I left the Church. And when I was in, I did not dabble in the ethics and justice madness. It did not make any sense to me. The math was all wrong in every part of it.

    Just to give you an idea. You announce a comm ev and spread the announcement around. Everyone who reads it goes into doubt about the person the comm ev is being called on. Doubt is a lower condition. How is someone in a lower condition towards you, expected to deliver justice at your comm ev?

    This is how crazy the math was.

    Being “in ethics”? No eighth dynamic? If you don’t have one, at all, how are you ever making “the greatest good for the greatest number” choices? Hubbard didn’t even invent “the greatest good for the greatest number” ethics system. That method is Utilitarianism and it was proposed by a British gentleman Jeremy Bentham. And there are much better systems. In a perfect system of ethics, there would be no punishment or pain. Nobody would be set up for a loss. How “ethical” is it to set someone else up for a loss?

  24. The Oracle

    It worked out for the best. I retired early and devoted myself to other causes more worthwhile. But it is always nice to see your name again Claire. You left a lot of people with a lot of good memories. XXOO

  25. Alanzo

    Yeah, well. You’re probably right.

    But I reserve my right to respond how and when I choose.

  26. The Oracle

    So true. But I will leave you with one thing to think about. All of the abuse suffered under the banner of “scientology”, was abuse generated by people with no perception or consideration of, an eighth dynamic. If you do have these perceptions and awareness, you really do not belong in that group. That would include the Sea Organization and the anti movements as well. These groups are for people that have no awareness of an eighth dynamic. If you do not belong in these groups, you do not belong within their “justice and ethics” traditions.

  27. The Oracle

    The I Am Jane Doe film is about the results of Backpage, the group Village Voice Magazine was a front for for years. There are two more documentaries in the works at this time looking at the profiteers, legal system, and corporate ethics involved, that profited off of the misery of these women and children. Legally. Some bills being drafted for Congress now.

  28. Marco

    There is a science to cult recovery that are based on facts.

    After you are truly interested in the subject – I would love to talk to you.

    You have too much Scientology coursing through your viens and you just want to be right.

    “What is true for you is true” mi amigo.

    I wish you a healthy recovery from the cult.

  29. Alanzo

    And you too, Marco.

    I realize that, after being out for 17 years, having been fair-gamed by them and being a critic on the Internet for all that time, maintaining a blog exposing Scientology for 8 years, studying hypnosis, Maoist reconditioning, social coercion, etc etc etc – you think I am still a Scientologist.

    There’s a lot of that going around. There are certain key-words, anti-cult beliefs, and attitudes that a person must display to a fellow anti-Scientologist. And if you don’t express those things just right – BAM! – you’re BACK IN SCIENTOLOGY AGAIN!

    I’m telling you – this anti-Scientology shit just gets weirder and weirder the more you step back and really look at it.

    It’s not just you, Marco. It’s your whole tribe.

    There are more ways to see Scientology than just “Scientologist” and “Anti-Scientologist”.

  30. The Oracle

    Also, the “psychiatric evaluations” in these groups are just gas lighting. Fucking with other people’s sanity. It is not sane to disturb the sanity of others.

  31. statpush

    Wow, I am speechless. I didn’t know about Natterblog. Just had a browse in the forums. This is on par with the church’s hate sites. These guys are fucked up. Truly.

  32. Virginia McClaughry

    I didn’t think so but figured it was worth an ask. Thanks.

  33. Virginia McClaughry

    Hear, Hear. Wonderfully put Alanzo. The same thing goes on with us. Buncha idiots at Tony’s bunker insist on positioning us as “scientologists” or “damaged by scientology” because they can’t handle the truth.

    Mostly about themselves.

  34. Eileen

    Marco- You are mistaking theories about “deprogramming” for facts. There are one million routes out of a cult. You just have to find one. q1uPz

  35. Virginia McClaughry

    What a bunch of crap Marco. Alanzo is not a VICTIM of scientology.

  36. Virginia McClaughry

    “…that’s a post best saved for another thread or never.” Oh the sub-understanding in that phrase, lol. Loved it.

  37. The Oracle

    Right. And for the record, The headlines that I attacked a “Holocaust Survivor” are completely false. We were speaking of journalist. So, the site was just designed to destroy my career. This was my sentence for refusing to join the witch hunt against Monique Rathbun. Whatever. As I said, it worked out for the best.

  38. Virginia McClaughry

    To your last sentences, sometimes yes, and sometimes no. It depends. The first post there was attacking me and Alanzo.

    The big attempt to DA me was basically pointing out that I believe in telepathy as that’s “proof” enough of…something.

    Sometimes, such attacks are actually best left to stand as a testimony to the character of the person who did them.

    But in your case, what they did to you there, mostly within their comments sections, was really something to witness. It’s as if they literally went crazy right in front of God and everyone and were so hell-bent they didn’t even notice the selfies they were showing the world.

    Again, a standing testimony to their current character.

    But, I’d say if Alanzo wants to not have to sit there and ‘take it’ regarding these people, then that is his right and no one should try and take that away from him.

  39. Virginia McClaughry

    Correction – should say “as IF that’s “proof” enough of…something.”

  40. Virginia McClaughry

    Alanzo, I think I might agree with Oracle here that Michelle was USED and I suspect it was the Karen/Ortega contingent. I say that because for one reason, “Communicator IC” over on ESMB broke their “just the links ma’am” form over all this and actually was used, at the same time as the natterblog creation, to attack Mike and I. Their whole presentation was for us to be viewed as crazy and here’s the kicker…that we are SCIENTOLOGISTS.

    As if that’s the kiss of death, even if it was true, which it isn’t.

    I don’t know if its true about Pete Griffiths, as Oracle says, but I don’t necessarily discount it either.

  41. Virginia McClaughry

    “…originally, ESMB was not created to destroy.”

    I disagree. I think that is exactly what it was created for, veiled or not.

  42. Alanzo

    Yep. One aspect of that site is not very visible.

    There was someone posting as “Alanzo” there, cutting and pasting parts of my posts from other websites and adding in things to them. At first it was hilarious because it really showed a kind of mimicry to how I write. Almost like a caricature. And I just thought it was funny.

    A friend of mine was appalled but I just laughed. It was almost like an inside joke in my own mind.

    But then this person, who was posting as me, got really sick and had “me” saying really sick stuff. Then it wasn’t funny any more.

    Here’s the part that isn’t very visible: This is happening on a website that Michelle is running and she knows exactly what the person posting as Alanzo is doing. And she never does anything about it. People were coming onto the site asking the person questions thinking it was me. And the person was answering them without saying he wasn’t me. And his answers were crazy and sick. And the people asking the questions thought it was me saying the crazy and sick things. And Michelle wasn’t stopping it or saying anything about it to correct them.

    It was very dishonest. And it shows the whole reason she created the blog – simply to discredit me and other Exes and critics of Scientology.

    That’s a lot of work to go to for that kind of thing. I don’t even think the Church has ever done anything like that on one of their hate sites. Like pretend to be Tony Ortega and have him talk about having sex with children or something.

    But Mish did.

  43. The Oracle

    It was ruthless.

  44. Virginia McClaughry

    This I agree with –

    “But now they are filled with psychiatric evaluations such as, the one above on you. It’s a psychiatric evaluation.”

    They called Alanzo a “collapsed Narcissist” at that Sp’s R Us place. That was a new one on me, I had to go look it up and I was just appalled. Whoever invented that clearly has so many issues of their own its practically spelling out their name in any description of it. Seriously.

    Over the last 17 years I’ve had so many similar labels from these SCIENTOLOGY driven nutcases that I’m practically a walking DSM from their perspective apparently.

    They are just SO afraid of people they can’t control to fawn over them, it’s incredibly revealing.

    Sometimes, the best justice is to let them splay themselves out as walking examples of what self-hatred can do to someone, for all the world to see.

    And the world does see it, but you won’t find them at those demon-watering holes facebook groups.

    Speaking of which, I actually feel sorry for Chris Shelton, he’s just such an easy mark for these kind of people that it’s painful to watch. First an easy mark in the cult, now an easy mark out of it and in the next one called “not a scientologist”. I hope he figures it out some day, but I’m not holding my breath.

    But not always.

  45. Marco

    Virginia – it is a fact – anyone who was sucked into a cult though manipulation and deceit is a victim. It is okay. It does not mean you are low toned. You were a victim – your husband was a victim, I was a victim and so was Alanzo. What is your husband up to these days? Is he around on any of the blogs?

  46. The Oracle

    When it gets that brutal and ruthless, I look for the fingerprint of a Sea Org Member or former Sea Org Member somewhere at the crime scene.

  47. Virginia McClaughry

    Want to know why they started that thing? Because Mark Rathbun was allowing Oracle, me, and Alanzo, and a number of other people TALK to each other there at his blog (oh, the HORROR! lol) and he was slamming the moderator hammer down on THEM when they tried to come and do their bullying thing. Emma went nuts exactly after when Mark wouldn’t allow her and what Alanzo called her “flying monkeys” come and attack me there.

    Heck, early on when I first started commenting there last year, Mark showed us that there was some guy even threatening my life, that’s how nuts these people get.

    So, they just couldn’t take the idea that there was somewhere they couldn’t do their bullying/stalking thing and then started the natterblog.

  48. statpush

    This is bizarre, Al. Not to sound paranoid, but it feels like a psych-op.

  49. Alanzo

    Thats Mish!

  50. Virginia McClaughry

    Alanzo, exactly. And Chris Shelton’s latest video trying to do a scientology-like PR handling on his “hate mail” is scripted in much the same way – the same feel. If you follow me there. I actually cringed for the guy, it was just SO bad in how it made him look.

    He’s so stuck in the sea organization “theta acks mean something” from all the con-artists in his life, that he actually thinks he comes off as real.

  51. Virginia McClaughry

    Oracle – definitely. Or worse. It’s not only the sea org members of the world that specialize in that kind of brutality and intolerance. There are actually entire firms that are hired by the intelligence community to do the same kinds of vicious attacks on those deemed “security risks”.

    Never underestimate just how threatened these people get by just ONE person they can’t get a handle on.

  52. The Oracle

    Laughter!

  53. The Oracle

    I think in the anti movement three people are allowed to start a conversation and control the thoughts. Karen, Jeffrey and Tony. All thoughts and agreements flow down from that unit. If you start another conversation, or a conversation of your own, you are “squirreling”. If you look at the current anti sites, they are all woven together so “the word” is spread and everyone is supposed to agree. And support the conversations laid down for them. Or. mimic one of the above thought police. Mimicry is greatly appreciated. But if you go rogue or have any other conversation going, you are viewed as some kind of squirrel. Marty always had fresh conversations on his blog and this disturbed a lot of people. They could not wrap their head around it. Even on ESMB they had to install an entire section just for Marty news called “Marty world”, as if the mention of his name had to take you to an altogether corridor of conversation that did not harmonize with the rest. Laughter! Karen installed Ortega and told him what to write or wrote it for him for a long time, until he was a smooth running machine. She also groomed Jeffrey. It’s a cult. And the current “think” is monitored by thought police. If you have an original thought or shift off onto your own thought, you are banned, expelled or attacked as a squirrel. The entire fair gaming of Monique Rathbun was because she thought for herself. The entire fair gaming of Marty is because he thought for himself. It’s akin to squirreling.

  54. The Oracle

    It is basically a Sea Org Unit. Laughter! And everyone is qualed, as long as you have the “right head”, same thoughts, same purposes, and are obedient.

  55. Virginia McClaughry

    Ah! It’s an expanded definition of squirreling. I get it now. I think that’s actually pretty accurate, Oracle.

  56. The Oracle

    A fresh conversation or new viewpoint or idea, is a threat. Any change is a threat. Any individuality is a threat. And Karen is being a copy of L. Ron Hubbard.

  57. Virginia McClaughry

    No, it is not a fact. It’s an opinion posing as a fact.

  58. Virginia McClaughry

    Exactly, Eileen. The “I’m a victim and it’s ok” thing doesn’t work for everyone, and Marco needs to realize that and get off his infallibility of mind-control high horse.

  59. Virginia McClaughry

    Margaret Singer? You’ve got to be kidding. In my opinion, she’s about as useful as a source as Sidney Gottlieb. And I never knew a thing about her until after scientology, so no, you don’t get to take the hysterical “it’s a scientology mind set” route with me on that woman.

  60. Virginia McClaughry

    “Scientology re wires the Brain to be “us against them””

    Is that your excuse for when you get testy towards those who don’t agree with you?

    I like Willis Harman’s line about that idea.

    It went something like: “We’ve met the enemy and he is us”. Considering what HE was involved with, that’s such an accurate statement on so many levels that I still like to look at it from time to time.

  61. Virginia McClaughry

    ” What is your husband up to these days? Is he around on any of the blogs?”

    You mean besides his own blog?

  62. Virginia McClaughry

    For clarity, Marco, I don’t disagree with the idea that scientology was a mind-control experimentation playground – even a brief perusal of my posted research at my husband’s blog will show that in a hurry – what I disagree with is your position of the infallibility or “workability” of mind-control. I think this is what you base your whole premise of victim upon, or as we put it at our blog, a master MAKING people into slaves as if that’s a forgone conclusion.

    It isn’t.

    Apparently you can’t even consider the idea that it 1: doesn’t work at all without your power put behind it and 2: that there are people who can totally immerse themselves in a “cult” and not have it change a thing about them that it tried to change.

    That would be me, for one example.

    If anything, on that particular point, all being in scientology did is prove to me that mind-control still doesn’t actually really work to truly change anyone – same as always.

  63. The Oracle

    As radical as this may sound, some folk are parked in pis aller 24/7. You can put them on deserted island with no threat in sight and still, every decision and action would come from a pis aller state of mind. You can park them in a Palm Desert Resort and ordering a martini will become a pis aller episode. They jump into “last resort” mode when checking the mailbox. It is always “last resort” methods in the most serene weather available. If you do not have a sense of endless capacity, you can get parked in this 24/7. Which is the weak link in people that have no eighth dynamic.

  64. Richard

    Some people have turned into internet preachers. Kind of like going to church. Redemption – let us pray.

  65. statpush

    Let’s put this into context…The number of people exiting cults is pretty small; and the number leaving Scn even smaller. I’m not surprised you’d find little academic consideration. There’s maybe a handful of experts (some self-proclaimed), out of millions of academics. Ex-Scnists number in the thousands, out of billions on the planet. There are far more important social problems that deserve attention.

    So, I’m a bit skeptical about “cult recovery based on facts”.

  66. Alanzo

    I came across this last night in my continuing study of the ideological leaders of Anti-Scientology, and their ideological teachings.

    It seems there’s trouble in paradise: Anti-cult expert Rick Ross has publicly disavowed anti-cult expert Steven Hassan on his website.

    https://www.culteducation.com/group/1289-general-information/8227-disclaimer-regarding-steve-hassan.html

    Once you begin questioning the beliefs of Anti-Scientology, just like Scientology, the whole thing starts to crash.

  67. Richard

    Virginia – Just in case, for clarity, I was referring to Marco’s comments which to me come across like a sermon. There are others on the blogs who tend to do the same thing. There’s a difference between expressing one’s viewpoints and sermonizing, imo.
    It seems that on the way this blog is set up that it’s best to indicate to whom the comment is made. ok?

  68. Claire Swazey

    You committed the crime of getting an interview on YouTube from another human being, then the latter linked to it in SpsRUs. And somehow that makes you in search of an audience.

    SMH.

    Even if you were in search of an audience-that’s not necessarily a bad thing. Anyone who writes a book, op ed piece, anything public- is looking for an audience. Because they have something to say.

    This world is so centered on communication now. Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, blogs, cable tv, online articles and their comments sections, message boards, podcasts, emails, texting, gotomeeting.com…Things have changed so much in the past generation. There are so many options to communicate and people are really into it.

    Are my fellow critics and exes really going to try to determine WHICH people have tge right to be heard and with which method? Seriously?

  69. Alanzo

    To answer your question: YES

    I know it was rhetorical. But the hysteria of Anti-Scientologists can not be maintained in the face of skeptical questioning. And if the hysteria can not be maintained, then Anti-Scientologists can not win their fight. Because the fight REQUIRES hysteria in order to believe it hard enough to win it.

    Win what?

    Another good question.

    So yes, anyone who questions the Anti-Scientology narrative, in the immortal words of Zeke, needs to be taken ay-out!

  70. Richard

    I meant “Are we ok, Virginia?” laughter

  71. The Oracle

    It is not a hidden situation. There are many people that have survived Hubbard by decades. And still, they have not been able to escape his shadow.

  72. Virginia McClaughry

    Thanks for that Richard – and yes, I got what you were talking about, and I was trying to be funny in my response to you. Hope that made it through ok…:-)

  73. Claire Swazey

    I think Martyworld was probably just created to be a subsection since there were lots and lots of posts about Marty. Major major topic.

  74. Claire Swazey

    I don’t think everyone who’s against CifS-or even also against Scn-as-practice is an hysterical anti-scientologist. Some ppl are just plain done with it and think it’s crap. And I get it. After everything the cult puts ppl through, all the pain, financial ruin, loss of family, RPFing- I’m totally down with anyone who wants nothing to do with it.

    To me, the only people who come off as “Anti Scientologists” the way you’re talking about here are the ones who get nasty about it. Not everyone who’s ditched Scn and/or ditched CofS is like that.

  75. Richard

    Above The Oracle says “Almost everywhere I look in the conversations outside of the Church, it is basically a comm ev in session.”

    That’s probably an exaggeration. Most people haven’t been comm eved or declared. I’m a newbie and feel left out. I hereby declare myself “In Treason”.

    Now I feel part of the group.

    I generally don’t focus on “what’s wrong with people”. That could become a lifetime project.

  76. Chee Chalker

    You do seem to be a bit of a contrarian.

    I don’t get over to ESMB much as I am a Never In (thank God for that), so I can’t really comment on what’s going on over there, but
    I will say what kind of church fair games former members?

    I happened to catch the first part of your vlog with Andy and it was very interesting
    Hope to watch the rest later on

    I don’t know why it’s a bad thing to be labeled as a ‘bitter ex’. Andy seems to think this is going to be bad for Leah’s career or psyche, but IMO there is nothing wrong with taking a stance against something bad

    Are former members of Jim Jones’ cult (the ones who got away) bitter exes?
    Are former Nazis bitter? (Sorry to use the go-to Nazi/Scientology comparison)
    Are former employees of Enron wrong for being vocally bitter? (Enron was a corporate cult IMO)

  77. Alanzo

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking a stand against something bad.

    But there is a “bitter period” of being an Ex. During that period you are not really open to anything positive at all with Scientology, or even anything which would call into question the depths of its depravity. You just don’t want to do that during that period.

    Leah has more pressure on her to be more accurate in her criticisms because she is on TV. And that is a very good thing. The “rules of evidence” must be much higher there than they are in the comments section of the underground bunker or on ESMB.

  78. The Oracle

    I’m sure for you, Marty was a subject of curiosity. For others, he was just a target on slow days. That they united to publish photos of his home on the net, knowing there are religious fanatics running around, and setting his child up as a target during adoption trials, that was pure cruelty. Had the child been removed from the home, he would have been placed in foster care.

  79. The Oracle

    And that is exactly how they closed down Marty’s blog. Placing his son and wife in danger.

  80. The Oracle

    That was evil not on par with C of S, but way above and beyond. That is when I knew that forum had nothing to do with crusading for justice.

  81. The Oracle

    And the people parked on the forum were a lot scarier and more dangerous than Scientologists.

  82. The Oracle

    Alanzo was just one who distanced himself from that madness. They do not publish about all of the people that fled and dropped off. If you go away “silently” they do not come after you. Just like the fkn C of S. People jumped ship like rats. Alanzo just wanted to keep the conversations going. A lot of people were so disgusted they dropped out of the conversations altogether.

  83. Valkov

    Those people are like the Alcoholics Anonymous members – one of the tenets of their beliefs, their “stable data”, is that one is always an Alcoholic at bottom. It’s just part of their identity.
    Great blog you have, Al!.

  84. Alanzo

    Well Valkov, coming from you that’s quite a compliment.

    Thank you.

    Good to see you here!

  85. Valkov

    Thanks! It’s good to be here and I’m glad you have persevered with your blog.

  86. Valkov

    “Scientology rewires the brain to be us against them”? Our societies and cultures wire us to be that way from birth. Now we have the mass media and the “social” medias – Facebook, ESMB, etc going at it full force. The Church of Scientology is a result, not a cause of this kind of wiring, although i admit it fosters it. Us against them is the party line of virtually every government, from the US to North Korea. Marco, open your eyes!

  87. Claire M Swazey

    No. I see that as a cop out. Ppl make their own decisions.

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