When Anti-Scientology Turns into Cruelty Against Scientologists

When I got out of Scientology and began exposing them on the Internet 19 years ago, it was because I had discovered how cruel that the leadership in the Church of Scientology had been to too many people. And I realized this had to be stopped.

And so, along with many others, at great risk to ourselves, we posted information on the Internet to ensure that their cruelty and their abuse would be exposed. I was fired from my job, had private investigators follow me and my family was threatened. All that is easily proven. A lot more happened that I can not prove came from Scientology.

At that time, in the late 1990’s and early 2000s, Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder and David Miscavige, at the very top of Scientology, had been able to shudder most media companies into silence. During this period, Scientology was pretty much operating at their cruelest, and with impunity.

Even typing the word “Scientology” on the Internet got you fair gamed, let alone posting their confidential OT levels, and secret LRH orders to commit criminal acts.

As you know, there is very little honor among thieves, nor bloodless backsides among backstabbers. And so there was a great falling out between Marty, Mike and Dave. Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder, along with many other cruel Int Base Escapees, ended up out here on the wilds of the Internet and told – a few – salacious stories about the mutual cruelties and atrocities that they caused to themselves and to too many others while in positions of authority in the church of scientology.

This has been great to watch. There really can’t be a better outcome than to see these cultic abusers rip each other apart publicly as is happening now on the Internet, in the press, in the movies, and on TV.

But here’s the consequence: The major spectacle that they are all causing is bringing in all kinds of eyeballs. And the swarm of people who are gathering to engage in Scientology-watching is getting huge, and likely to get even more so.

It’s the dream we all hoped for.

But be careful what you hope for. This is coming with a cost. It’s a cost that deletes the very reason I became a critic in the first place: Anti-Scientology is becoming just as cruel as Scientology was.

Take this tweet for example:

kill yourself 1

This kind of behavior brings about the exact same reaction I had when I first learned about Scientology’s cruelty to people and left them to expose them on the Internet:

This tweet was sent from some Twitter entity named sunsetinyellow to GEMTHEWIT, who is a public Scientologist in England who is prominent on the Scientology Twitter, doing her best to try to defend her chosen religion against people she sees as engaging in religious persecution.

I’m having a hard time not seeing it her way with tweets like this.

When I commented that this tweet was the kind of cruelty that not one Ex-Scientologist I know ever wanted to have happen when we first started exposing them on the Internet so long ago, another anti-Scientology entity named “DICE” – who is a long time supporter of Tony Ortega’s Underground Bunker – tweeted this to me in response:

dice replies

I feel just as betrayed and outraged now by this kind of cruel behavior from members of a group I thought I had belonged to as I did when I was a Scientologist and finally saw what they were doing back then.

This isn’t a better alternative to Scientology. We might as well all be Scientologists now, working to enforce the Tone Scale laws in courts on people below 2.0, or teaching LRH Fair Game techniques in public schools. That cruel society from Scientology would be no worse than this one – if this is how anti-Scientology is going to behave.

How many underground bunkerites will publicly condemn this tweet?

55 thoughts on “When Anti-Scientology Turns into Cruelty Against Scientologists”

  1. It depends on how seriously you want to take an anonymous Fuck You on the internet to another anonymous poster. I doubt that the comment “sunsetinyellow” made to “GEMTHEWIT” left her weeping.

    • You doubt it? Well, I was a public CofS member on a forum just before I saw the light and decided to leave. And though I met many lovely people, I was also the recipient of posts similar to that and I did cry a few times.

        • I got a couple scoldings from Emma on her board- about caring if people like me. No, it never was about whether or not they like me. It was what they DID about it. (My thinking on this being much more linear.) Also another thing is that people say those things because they DO want the other person to heed their words. And they get angry if the person doesn’t.

          • Emma turned into one of the most abusive people I’ve ever known on the Internet.

            There was a huge cultural shift that came with Anonymous. Prior to Anonymous, we were just a bunch of Exes trying to hold off OSA and keep exposing them. After anonymous there was a real culture of cruelty.

            Remember how they used to say that if you were upset by anything that anyone said to you on the Internet, then you were an idiot? The memes of “BUTTHURT” and sections of websites like “THUNDERDOME” were all used to be cruel as hell to people. I can remember what happened to Tory on WWP. It was horrible.

            And Emma fell right into that. And the culture of ESMB changed dramatically with that.

            I changed, too, in order to survive.

            There is a lot that I am reading about a “spoiled identity” which increases the chances that an Ex will militarize or become an “apostate”. All that cruelty and dead agenting is designed to create yet another spoiled identity for an Ex even after Scientology. It is the worst possible thing for a person who has left Scientology and tried to deal with their humiliation, to then have this kind of humiliation and cruelty waged on you as an Ex – not just by the Church, but by other Exes, too.

            But now that Tony Ortega’s influence has grown, and with his contempt for anything religious or spiritual, and for so many people who he takes on, the cruelty is increasing even more.

            I’m just wondering if anyone from the Underground Bunker is going to condemn those tweets, or if all Scientologists are OPEN SEASON for whatever cruelty they can think up.

            • I know that Emma was angered by my publicly naming her and talking about things she’d said about me. I feel bad that she may have been upset, but her comments included insults, ridicule and name calling. I’d be lying if I said it didn’t bother me. Hell, it was meant to.

              I had singled her out but only to describe what she said. I haven’t called her names or anything like that. She’s made it quite plain that she feels I’m a hypocrite (again: her own phrasing) and it seemed that there were implications that I was a bad person.

              Well, Michelle, I know you didn’t like all the arguing and flames cluttering up your forum. Nobody would. I get it.

              A couple things-Those flames were kicked off by others. They initiated all of it. I messed up by perpetuating it-namely by arguing back SO much that I left trails of scorched earth. This was a tactical error and quite a bad one. But those who called me names etc have the MORAL onus.

              And the other thing is I’ve bent over backwards to stop the cycle. Which I have. Try to find any thread there in the past 2 years where I’m in there arguing back or contributing to the flamefests in any way. There aren’t any. And I DO see the posts and have had plenty of opportunity to do what I used to do.

              As far as my alleged hypocrisy, well, I have actually have talked to friends about stuff they’ve done. You don’t see my emails and messenger pms. But they exist.

              Plus, like everyone else, I sometimes screw up.

              I’m not a threat to anyone and would prefer not to be treated as if I were.

              I’m open to moving forward and being friends again and anyone who wants to knows how to find me for private conversation.

              Now, as to The Bunker- I know people who hang out there who I enjoy talking to. I like to think protesting that someone told another person he should kill himself would be ok to do there. But I’ve not tried it.

              People like Sunsetinyello and those who support their comments should be regarded as trolls. I don’t view them as the face of modern Scn criticism. I just think there’s a lot of trolling. Unfortunately, it gets into a folie a deux situation where others might encourage the trolling. I used to see a lady who posted as T*****- not even a Scn’ist- get accused of being OSA, carpet muncher, in the cult with no retirement plan by someone -seemed like a teen boy-on OCMB- and nobody decried it.

              Trolls are good at getting people to join in and start dogpiling. People can be easily manipulated. When they’re apart and aside from jerks like that, they can be a bit more sensible.

    • Considering that Alanzo misspelled the recipient’s Twitter handle in this posting, one has to question how sincere he is in “protecting” her or whether he ever had heard of her at all before becoming her “white knight.” It’s also interesting to note that months later, the recipient repeatedly posted screen grabs of this tweet, which many people saw, so apparently she wasn’t all that traumatized by it.

      • Sorry that I misspelled her Twitter handle.

        Welcome to AlanzosBlog Dr Crowley.

        I don’t really see how you could conclude that her repeatedly posting screen grabs of this tweet was evidence that she was not traumatized by it. It could be just as easily concluded that this was evidence that she was traumatized by it.

        At any rate her level of trauma was not my point. But you should know that if you had read my post.

        I take it that you have no problem with cruelty to scientogists in your righteous fight to save the world from scientology?

        Or do I misunderstand your position?

  2. That reply isn’t surprising from ‘Dice’. I don’t know the person who tweeted the original tweet. Dice is a very rabid bunkerite. Their level of intensity, lack of empathy towards Scientologists–who weren’t on the bunker approved list, and inability to discuss things, made me avoid them. They were making themselves a force to be reckoned with around the time I left. Prior to that, they were almost sort of trollish. The turn around was surprising, but I knew I was leaving and didn’t bother to think about it.

    I doubt any bunkerite would publicly condemn either tweet. If they would, why then they’d be attacked by the bunker. How could they denounce someone trying to ‘save’ a Scientology? How could they denounce ‘Dice’? How could they betray the bunker?

    Telling someone to kill themselves because you don’t agree with their religion is shocking, sickening, and beyond cruel. How/why can someone CONDONE that?!?! How/why could someone do that in the first place?!? ::shudder:: I imagine there ARE bunkerites who disagree but are too fearful to speak out.

    I’m so appalled at this. No matter your beliefs, this is not okay to say to someone.

    • She’s like William Wallace in “Braveheart” in blue battle paint, riding back and forth, rallying the troops just before the blood.

      Truly, this Anti-Scientology vs. Scientology thing can bring out the worst in people.

      • I believe it brings out the worst in the anti-Scientology people. The absolute worst. Dice was/is very good at riling people up, I do recall that. I’m sure she’s gotten better at it. ‘Let’s go attack someone because gosh they didn’t kill themselves when we told them to’.


        And I know darn well amongst the bunker there are many very kind good hearted people. They might be appalled at some things but they remain silent. I can empathize because I shamefully did that too. But I would have never been silent on someone telling someone to kill themselves. Let’s not forget the bunker has self-professed mental health experts too. The one who will claim they worked in mental health, then dx people—while at the same time attacking them–not naming them, but their moniker would require diapers. They were trying to play enforcer with me the last night I was there. Then, a few days later they were diagnosing me playing mental health ‘expert’.

        Then there are people there who openly speak about their mental illness struggles–which is admirable and one should never EVER be ashamed of that; some including having suicidal thoughts/attempts. So they’re in the bunker, with their own personal history of that and someone tells someone to KILL THEMSELVES?!?!?! DAFUQ?!?! [excuse my language]. And it’s all fine and dandy cuz it’s said towards a Scientology?!?!


          • Really needs a pacifier permanently in their mouth instead of their icon’s cigarette. Waaaaaaaa!

              • Alanzosblog has an in-house mental health professional. But she’s mad at me right now for asking for evidence in support of her claim that schizophrenia and bipolar disorders were biological diseases.

                • Mad at you? Interesting take on what was a lack of response. Not mad, just on vacation after a long semester. Yellowstone here I come!

                • Eileen!

                  Ha! I knew that would pull you in! 🙂

                  Are you going to go to the site of Custer’s last stand? A great book to be reading for that neck of the country is “In the Spirit of Crazy Horse” by Peter Mattheison.

                  It goes through all the treaties that we have created and broken with native Americans throughout history. It’s a real comedic romp.

                • Traveling through these states brings home the multiple tragedies of broken promises and genocidal plans. It is weird to see a single peice of farmland that stretches beyond sight. Is there anything that didn’t get razed and planted?
                  Don’t think I can face anything named Custer.

                • It’s kind of scary to see all that plowed land, isn’t it? All the way to the horizon in every direction.

                  To me it shows how temporal and fragile our civilization really is.

                • Interesting point. Badlands today!
                  Haven’t seen a single red cap, so there is that.
                  I’ll be off line for awhile, but will check back in a few weeks to see what new slander you have spread about me.

                • Man, there are a lot of cornfields between Boston and South Dakota! Hope all is well in your particular cornfield. Hope to reach the Badlands tomorrow.
                  From my current perspective, people will believe what they choose, and I’m happy to let them. No more lectures from me! (Until September). And then, only the ones I am paid to do!

                • Maybe not. I just remember you said biological. And my skeptic mind said that if it’s biological then there would be physical differences in the neurological systems of a schizophrenic person vs a non schizophrenic person. And you would be able to tell who was schizophrenic and who wasn’t by reading x-rays or MRIs without even taking to them.

                  Is that happening?

                • No. There are differences, seen on MRIs but nothing that should be considered diagnostic.
                  I consider most psychiatric conditions to be “disregulations” rather than diseases. The brain is as complex as the galaxies, anyone who thinks they have it pinned down is a fool.
                  In the meantime, take your probiotics til I “see” you again. The gut is becoming increasingly visible as an issue in mood. Not suggesting that yours needs to change, just good for everyone till we know more.

              • One of several. She jumps in claiming she worked in mental health—she very well might have, I’m not going to dispute that; BUT if she did, it’s a shame she doesn’t realize how viciously vindictive she is towards people AND how unprofessional it is to ‘diagnose’ and ‘analyze’ people to fit the narrative that you’re right and they’re wrong but you’re gonna sort of pin it on their mental illness.

                • It does appear that way. What gets me is that they can be very empathetic if you’re in the ‘in crowd’ or going along with how the wind blows; but if you’re not in the ‘in crowd’, are a Scientologist, or GASP! dare to challenge the bunker, empathy is tossed out the window, and any previously mentioned illness is used against you and/or they’ll make stuff up to try to rationalize how you could have done/said whatever.

                  Because to act out of free will, realization you’ve been wrong? Oh no! That could never ever be it! You’re definitely mentally ill!

                • The Schizophrenia “illness” invention has always been a tool of POLITICAL repression.

                  For example:


                  “What was their modus operandi? The use of psychiatry and FALSE labels of insanity to lock people up and torture them into compliance by using psychiatric methods.

                  For example –

                  page 9 September 6, 1951

                  Dimitri A. Dimitrov, the Bulgarian agent who threatened to expose CIA operations directed against Bulgaria from Greece and thus became a disposal case, has arrived in Panama where he will be detained indefinitely in an Army hospital.

                  And this –

                  p 54, September 25, 1951

                  The Tolstoy Foundation reported through the N.Y. Field Office that final steps in the legal committment of defector M.I. Samarin (also known as Michael Gregory) at the Institute of Living, Hartford, Conn., had run into difficulties. Samarin was removed from another institution to Hartford on 24 August, and Conn. law prescribes procedure culminating in examination, hearing and opinion by 2 independent psychiatrists, certifying that the individual’s commitment is required in the interest of public safety.

                  One of the 2 psychiatrists brought in for this purpose has expressed doubt as to the diagnosis of paranoiac schizophrenia. If his final decision should be that Samarin is not dangerously insane, Samarin would be discharged from the hospital. To arrange timely steps against this contingency, if possible, the Executive Director of the Tolstoy Foundation’ and the assigned case officer in N.Y. will meet today with Governor Lodge of Conn., with whom the former is closely acquainted, and seek his aid in resolving the situation.

                  In his present mental state, Samarin’s release would be unfortunate in its possible propaganda implications. He is the former Soviet teacher who refused to return to the Soviet Union in 1948, has been insane for upward of a year, and was the subject of an item in this report of 20 Sept. 1951, dealing with a letter which he had attempted to send Gromyko.

                  At 1135 this date, we were notified that Samarin had been reported missing at the hospital 15 minutes before.

                  We have a representative at the Tolstoy Foundation in N.Y., which in turn is in direct touch with ithe hospital; we notified the FBI, suggesting that Samarin be picked up if he should approach a Soviet diplomatic installation; we alerted the Army Language School in Monterey, Calif., to notify us at once if Samarin attempted to get in touch with his wife there; and we notified other government agencies to whom the matter is of concern. At 1345 we were notified that Samarin had been apprehended, still in Hartford, and returned to the hospital. Those who had been advised of his disappearance were notified of his return.

                  How eery is that?”

  3. ” . . . doing her best to try to defend her chosen religion . . . ” LOL
    The Scientology Country Club. Discount IAS Memberships now available. Visa, American Express and Mastercard accepted. The FSM commissions keep rolling in!

    • It’s “Heresy of the Week”, so someone MUST be burned at the stake. If Gem is retweeting her hate mail as Dr Crowley mentions, then she may be looking for sympathy and (financial?) support. Further investigation is needed. However, in order to ensure the evil is stamped out, maybe Gem, Sunset and Dice should all three be burned.

    • All Inquisitions need at least a token defender so I took on that role. Of course Alanzo as Chief Inquisitor remains the final Judge.

      Taking another look, Sunset and Dice were pretty well burned so that’s adequate until next week. As Claire previously mentioned many a witchhunt hath been launched on the internet.

      “kill yourself” is a rather lame troll comment. “burn in the fires of Hell” would have been more dramatic.

      Thinking *About* scn is often as nutty as thinking *With* scn.

      • Hey Alanzo – I’m just taking the “Heresy of the Week” topic to put out some light satire. I’m not trying to downgrade the overall message.

        I didn’t realize we were all supposed to be in therapy. (Here I go again)

          • Oh dear, please pardon me, but I’ve had enough therapy. I can do a success story though, glowing too!

            Once upon a time I started reading a blog that wrote about injustices and people being harmed. It took awhile before I started to comment and join in, as I saw everyone seemed to know each other well. I was nicely welcomed and became more indignant at what some people were, allegedly, suffering from by their own church. I fully participate and became fully immersed. I felt I was making a difference, bringing these atrocities to light, etc. I also felt included and a sense of belonging.

            Then a few things happened that gave me pause. Wait, what? How could someone do/say this when it’s basically something they say the ‘evil ones’ do? Let’s supress that for now, as one should never challenge the status quo, and never the ‘leader’. Then you’d be ultimately ostracized, after harassment, and they would follow the steps they claim their mortal enemy church did.

            Fortunately, when I undertook planning an event, one individual drove me to the brink of total physical and mental collapse. I stepped away from the group, read things in a detached manner, it made me sicker, as I was already ill. I was also fortunate my personal doctor told me to stop what I was doing, as that one individual was ruining my health –I had lost a lot of weight, was just a nervous wreck, and no one or anything was worth it. ::ding ding ding:: Huge wake up call!

            Since being ‘free’ and above ground, I have slowly, but gradually regained my health–it’s been a year and I still haven’t gained all my weight back, but I’m close! And the sense of FREEDOM is phenomenal! I don’t have to worry about possibly consorting with someone who’s considered an ‘enemy’, or saying something someone will disagree with. I can speak my mind withOUT having to edit or think of potential ramifications or defenses I might need to have. No more hush hush emails about ‘do you think this person is a sock?’ Just accept people as they are on the ‘net, who cares if they’re a sock?? No more hearing people worrying if they perhaps had annoying the ‘leader’, because the downright NEED to be in their good graces or even acknowledged was/is huge.

            Being FREE is a wonderful wonderful thing!! If you ever find yourself stuck within a group that you feel you cannot leave, where you worry about if you’ll be ejected or ostracized, where you suppress your REAL thoughts so as to not rock the boat, you might be within some form of a cult. GET OUT! Save yourself! Unfortunately you can’t really remain in contact with some of the good people stuck there because you’ll be continually dragged into it. Just hope they some day become free themselves.

            TL;DR Being a group with hardcore group think is bad, mmkay? Being in a group that is against an alleged ‘cult’ but they act pretty much like said alleged ‘cult’ is bad, mmkay? Get OUT! You can only save yourself, others will have to find their own way. Toss some breadcrumbs if you wish, but it might take some people a long time to realize something is wrong and find their way out.

            Freedom IS possible though and it’s a wonderful thing!! [HI!! Screen grabbers!]

      • About a week ago as I was falling asleep I got a brief emotional feeling and sense that any negative or hostile comments I’ve made on the blogs had no benefit to myself or anyone else.

  4. A tweet? Seriously? A freakin’ TWEET????

    Cruelty against Scientologists? You’re punking us, right? CRUELTY!!!!

    You have too much time on your hands. If you’re retired like me, start traveling, read more books, etc

    But to get bent out of shape about CRUELTY to Scientologists!!!!

    The people who would be doing that and have for 65 years now are OTHER Scientologists.

    But I doubt they will be reading your blog. Too busy buying buildings with extorted money and “declaring” former loyal adherents. Which always turns out too be a big favor in the long run.

    A TWEET!!!!

    • Yeah. After watching Leah Remini’s show last night it’s clear that the coming backlash on all Scientologists, whether they are innocent of David Miscavige’s machinations or not, is going to be huge. It’s always been a loser position – socially – to be a Scientologist, no matter what you were personally getting out of it. But giving even the smallest shit about what happens to scientologists who aren’t David Miscavige – when you are not even a Scientologist! – is really a loser position.

      In fact, being on the internet at all and making any kind of nuanced or non-tribal point about any of this is going to be a big loser – as if it hasn’t been all along.

      I know too much about this situation and the overwhelming totality of the coming crowd will not know any of it, and will not be interested in knowing it either. All they are going to want is REVENGE – even if Scientology has done nothing to them. So yeah, giving a shit, and especially writing about it publicly, is a big loser.

      Not my circus, not my monkeys.

      Thanks for the retirement advice.

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