The 5 Most Toxic & Corrosive Things About Being an Ex-Scientologist

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statpush
Guest

It’s not hard to see that these come about, given the state one is in upon exiting Scn. Often you are very isolated in a “me versus them” condition; cut-off from your normal comm lines. It almost always involves an injustice. So it’s not a surprise that you turn to the internet for information and support; where others have gone through (or going through) what you are experiencing. There is some safety in the ASC bubble.

But once you are completely out and have lived through the trauma, what value is it to remain in the ASC? For a while, you can tell “your stories”, and hope the data will be useful. You interact and discuss and reflect. All good.

Then what?

Keep doing it indefinitely? Staying within the tribal boundaries? It took a few years of this, before realizing it was the same old shit, recycled week after week.

Then occasionally, there’s a seismic shift, like Marty 2.0 or “No RPF for four years”, which may cause members to snap out of the tribal mindset and start asking the right questions.

marildi
Guest

“4. Stardom and admiration for your ideas become toxic and corrosive to you.”

By the same token, if you were to decide there is substantial truth and workability to Scientology, would you be concerned about admitting it and losing your followers?

This is the kind of thing Marty has done – going from pro-tech to anti-tech and, unless I’m mistaken, back to pro-tech now, or at least having no problem with it when it’s done right.

statpush
Guest

I wouldn’t say what Marty is doing is “ping-ponging”. What Marty is doing is LYING. He’s either lying now, or he was lying in the past. He has done a 180, contradicting sworn affidavits and other statements made in the past.

So, it really doesn’t matter whether Marty is pro-tech or anti-tech. Marty is simply incredulous.

This is a man who once said, “If you tell the truth, it becomes part of your past. If you lie, it becomes part of your future.”

Wise words, indeed.

Too bad he didn’t follow them.

Richard
Guest

I left the CoS in 1982 without damage and even considered continuing scn at David Mayo’s group in Santa Barbara. I think the scn experience comes down to three major factors.

When you participated, which might be generalized as before and after the death of LRH, although some people have other demarcation points.
In what capacity you participated, from sea org to never-staff public.
How long you participated, from a few years to a greater part of a lifetime.

I followed the 1970 Grade Chart which remained unchanged, as least as I recall, until the release of Dianetic Clear around 1980. Some people want to pick a definition of clear and say it’s bullshit. For me it was a realization that anything in my past couldn’t affect me in the present. Poof – the bubble burst. My co-auditor said “Locate an incident of . . . ” (a previously reading item). I replied “Joe, it’s just a joke – there’s nothing there!” Off to attest.

I’d say it’s no sacrosanct state of awareness unique to scn but it worked for me. Other people have the same reality whether from a practice, belief or their viewpoint of life in general. Scn as the only path to freedom has obviously been discarded by most people.

Anything I disagreed with in scn it was “Yeah, okay” and let’s get on with the show. Paul Haggis said he thought OT3 was nonsense but he let it slide since he wanted to see what came next. He didn’t say if he tried auditing “his BTs”. Factually, most of the human race believes in disembodied beings but that’s a different topic.

P.S. marildi – I doubt that Alanzo wants to go into lengthy debates about the hundreds of specifics of scn “tech”. Just sayin

statpush
Guest

It’s easy to target Hubbard or the church about such things like Clear or the State of OT. Not all of it is unjustified. They don’t do themselves any favors, with their wild hyperbole.

I did the full NED program and loved it. Going Clear was intensely profound…whatever it was. Did it fit the 1950s definition? Of course not. Am I glad I did it? Absolutely.

They just can’t allow themselves to say “do this program for 50-60 hours and something special will happen. It is uniquely personal and you won’t regret it.” Instead, its over-hyped, boarding on fraud.

In that respect, they cause their own problems.

statpush
Guest

By the way, I believe Haggis, as well as Jon Atack, “finished” OTIII in something like a week. Which means, they didn’t do the level. This is not a promotion of the OT Levels, it’s simply putting their comments into context.

marildi
Guest

Good post, statpush.

One of the first comments I ever posted on Marty’s blog (2009) was on his post about Paul Haggis leaving the church and stating that he had basically just gone along with the program but didn’t really believe in the OT levels. My comment was to the effect that Haggis was a big celeb and I would have expected the RTC Reps to have watched over him closely (the kind of thing I had wtinessed them doing at Flag). Some of the other posters thought I was indirectly accusing Marty of not handling Haggis (and proceeded to pile on) – but in the end Marty, like a good auditor, just answered the question. He said he doesn’t audit people who don’t want auditing. That’s some additional context on Haggis’ comments.

marildi
Guest

Good comment, Richard.

You added this at the end: “P.S. marildi – I doubt that Alanzo wants to go into lengthy debates about the hundreds of specifics of scn ‘tech’. Just sayin”

I have no problem with that, and it wasn’t my intention. My original comment on this thread was to ask Alanzo if he would be concerned about admitting there is “substantial truth and workability to Scientology,” if it meant losing his followers. Then I tried to communicate what “substantial” would entail by narrowing the question to lower bridge auditing – not, as you wrote, to “hundreds of specifics of scn ‘tech’.” I guess Alanzo indirectly answered the question when he validated statpush’s comment below regarding his (statpush’s) personal wins.

Richard
Guest

Just as a historical note, Dianetic auditing came before the grades on the 1970 Grade Chart. I trained as a Dianetic auditor at the Salt Lake City Mission, went to LA and did an internship, and then returned to Salt Lake and worked part time as a staff auditor. Any snags which occurred, of which there were few, were handled by a higher classed auditor with correction lists. There was a formality about it, keeping things “standard” with high integrity, which I never interpreted as being indoctrinated.

marildi
Guest

“Any snags which occurred, of which there were few, were handled by a higher classed auditor with correction lists.”

My experience is very similar. Few snags – and I would add that the snags were always handled by the higher classed auditor. This is why it’s hard for me to not believe auditing is workable for at least the majority.

Gimpy
Guest

HI Alanzo,
I like these broadcasts, they allow me to go on working while still listening, in addition they convey your thoughts on the subject more clearly than written words do.

LocoBastard
Guest

Being an ex-Scientology is better feeling then being an independent or some “freezoner”. You know you have believed in something for years and now you managed to get out from it. I feel really bad for those freezone people and the ones that call themselves “independent scientologists”. Look for instance at the mission from Israel that has decided to continue their own way in practicing lrh scientology without the suppression of the management. But from how I see it, most of this “smartasses” that think that scientology works, and they try to do it out of the management body, are just going to become some new practice, and this people usually then practice hypnotize or being a “coacher”.

I have read a lot about Dani and Tami Lemberger, and for sure Dani was the brave one to take himself, his wife and his staff out of the suppression of the management. I remember that someone translated for me one of Dani’s videos on Youtube, and Dani really believed lrh and said that he is following ONLY lrh as he is source etc yakee yakee yakee…..

But then, it was posted some time ago that now Dani and Tami have started to discover the real freezone, which includes rons org in it. Both have ben at Max Hauri’s place and did some OT levels that do not exist in the “independent” field nor in lrh’s original scripts. So as you see it in the end people dont believe management and people dont believe lrh.. it is just matter of time.

This poor people really… they need to just stop doing “scientology” and go on with their life.

Richard
Guest

Loco – I have mixed feelings about it. It used to bug (bother) me that that maybe I missed a mystery or mysteries by not doing the OT levels but I let that go. There will always be some adventurous souls exploring the paranormal and supernatural. Some people are going to say they’ve completed and even advanced Elron’s “work”. Good for them and good luck to them.

There may be some miraculous new discoveries happening but in general I think this story applies. An ex scn-ist who became a long time Buddhist asked his teacher if he should make public statements refuting Hubbard’s claim to have been the Buddha. His teacher replied, “There have been thousands of these. Why bother?”

Gib
Guest

Richard,

I don’t think you missed anything by not doing the OT levels, unless you have fall’in for Hubbard’s rhetoric of the OT levels being “amount of case gain”

laughing

statpush
Guest

Just a side note…if you subscribe to Hubbard’s theories on the e-meter and Tone Arm action, the TAA that occurs on OTIII is ridiculously high, like in the ballpark of the entire lower Bridge. I do not have a reasonable explanation for this.

Richard
Guest

Hey statpush – Delving into the metaphysical for a moment here’s a wild guess. How about a “karmic discharge” triggered by considering a generality or generalities in the universe which Elron perceived through his own filters and made specific in his OT3 narrative.

It might be similar to someone praying “Dear God help me” and perceiving a universal intelligence through their cultural filters as Jesus, Krishna, The Holy Ghost or whatever.

Going into the metaphysical and assuming everlasting existence then everyone would have experienced one or more cosmic or planetary cataclysms. I’ll smoke a few joints and get back with the answer later – haha. In the meantime it was just a massive release of chemicals in the brain caused by even considering a disaster like OT3.

On a channeling tape I once listened to a group of OTs was grilling an entity about whether OT3 was real or not. He simply replied, “Well, that is one of several possibilities . . . ” and went on to expound about other possibilities in the “theta universe”. laughter – Always more questions than answers.

statpush
Guest

It is some trippy shit when you think about it. What’s remarkable is (whatever IT is), is that Hubbard discovered/invented a phenomenon that could be detected, measured, observed and practised by many people. That’s pretty unique, even though I don’t fully understand it.

John Doe
Guest

Statpush- I noticed the same thing on OT3. Massive several division Tone Arm blowdowns that matched the physically-sensed mental phenomena occurring.

Something is happening when one does that OT 3 process.

I utterly reject LRH’s mythology of Xenu and that whole backstory.

If you were told an automobile functions because of controlled gasoline explosions under the hood, or if you were told there were thousands of squirrels running on little wheels that powered the vehicle, no matter which you believed, the car would still move down the road when you pressed down on the accelerator.

I have yet to come across a satisfactory explanation of the mental phenomena surrounding the running of OT 3 on oneself.

Although I’ve fully moved on, and am not stuck on this, I do have a lingering interest in what might be the “real” explanation.

Hey Alanzo, maybe open the table for discussion of this at some point with an opening post about it some time?

LocoBastard
Guest

Richard,

You shouldn’t have mixed feelings about this.

The point here is that I know that there is a difference between the “independents” and “freezoners” Exes, and it always seems that the Exes that leave the Church, tend to go and be an “indie” and later on goes onto some invented technology which is delivered in the ron’s org, and this is exactly what Dani & Tami Lemberger are doing now. This is weird as I remember that the Lemberger couple used to follow lrh tightly, and now it seems they stray away.

You can read in the Israeli independent website about how they follow lrh and ‘standard technology’, and now the rest of their crew (Carmela Weizman, Moti Weizman, Aviv Bershadsky, Don Schaul, Dima Dubinin, Lari Hazanovich), are probably confused if to follow the rons org technology or lrh technology.

I foresee a dispute in this array of activity.

marildi
Guest

The last I heard from a friend who does services at Dror Center in Israel was that they do deliver Excalibur, which is tech from Ron’s Org. However, the Lembergers still fully believe in LRH tech and apply it strictly on the Scientology bridge up to OT VIII.

семь ножей
Guest

“the Lembergers still fully believe in LRH tech and apply it strictly on the Scientology bridge up to OT VIII”

How can you strictly follow LRH tech, and deliver Excalibur?

Excalibur is an altered OT 8, and is not LRH. But leave that out, you have up to OT 40 something in Ron’s Org, and from what you write, Dani & Tami Lemberger are now part of Ron’s Org??? What happened to “standard tech”?

I believe in tech that is purely LRH and not something that someone who was an ex-Church member has invented (Captain Bill Robertson).

I saw some cases of people who were doing the CBR Bridge, with all this invented crap, and their minds were messed with, and you DONT want to know their condition today…

So I suggest that you tell your friends to watch out from anything that is not LRH.

семь ножей
Guest

Hello Alanzo and thanks. I see what you are saying. I know the good things that REAL tech does, as it worked for me and helped me. What you are writing are things that are being misapplied.

The point I am trying to understand is how come such group of Dror Center, which consists of Dani & Tami Lemberger, Aviv Bershadsky, Dima Dubinin, Viktoria Severin and others which I dont remember the names of – are now aiming for OT 9-48 which was invented by Captain Bill Robertson.

Being independent is one thing, but going off to practice this weird stuff that messes with your mind is totally off for me.

I keep getting emails from succes stories from Viktoria Severin, about people who are having success in Dror Center, but now I am starting to think that I am being fooled, and that they are not real standard technology. This is scary as I had stable datum, and now I don’t and I am looking for answers on the internet, and I have read everything, and everything leads to “Ron’s Org” and this crazy invented “OT48” stuff.

Do you have any knowledge in that? in the Dror Center group? as for me, up to several weeks ago it was the promising place to go OT, but no with all this weird stuff I have my own doubts, and so as others.

Anyways, thanks for running this blog, and giving the opportunity to ask questions and understand things.

marildi
Guest

семь ножей: “How can you strictly follow LRH tech, and deliver Excalibur?”

I didn’t mean that Excalibur is LRH tech. I specified that with respect to the LRH Bridge up through OT VIII, they strictly follow the tech.

They do consider that Excalibur is also workable tech. Personally, I agree with their approach – in my view, there is no reason to slavishly believe that only LRH was capable of developing workable tech, even though it may very well be true that in his time there was no other workable tech.

In actual fact some of the LRH tech was developed by others, based on the fundamentals LRH discovered. And I get that Excalibur is also based on LRH’s fundamentals.

In any case, no one needs to be a slave to someone else’s point of view regardless of who it is. Look for yourself and be your own “orientation point” (LRH’s term) – that’s what LRH himself advised.

Anyway, I’m sure if you asked the Lembergers about their delivery of Excalibur, they would be more than willing to be in comm with you about it.

семь ножей
Guest

So what is the point of “Keeping Scientology Working”. Why cant there be places that deliver ONLY LRH technology, and other places that deliver the other invented things?

семь ножей
Guest

“Anyway, I’m sure if you asked the Lembergers about their delivery of Excalibur, they would be more than willing to be in comm with you about it.”

I kind of gave up getting service from the Lembergers. It now feels to me like a fraud. I have seen what happened to people that were doing this outragous invented – OT Levels, I am telling you – their mind was messed with just like lab rats. There is no way I am going to be a lab rat.

I am sure that Aviv Bershadsky and Dima Dubinin are not fully aware of the Lemberger’s plan for creating the “next” invented Bridge. This just becomes a criminal game. Instead of really helping people, they try to invent service-list which will probably give them a lot of cash.

Sorry…

marildi
Guest

семь ножей: “I am sure that Aviv Bershadsky and Dima Dubinin are not fully aware of the Lemberger’s plan for creating the “next” invented Bridge.”

Where did that datum come from?

I haven’t heard anything about the Lembergers delivering all the Ron’s org OT levels – just Excalibur. There’s also an independent group in the state of Idaho that delivers the standard LRH Bridge plus Excalibur, but no other Ron’s org OT levels, as I know from what I last heard.

Again, though, you should talk directly to the Lembergers. See if my idea is right that Excalibur is based on Scientology principles about the mind and beings. The rundown might even come from a lecture where LRH described it as a potential auditing procedure, although he himself never got around to developing it. I think this is the type of thing independent auditor Robert Ducharme discovered and majorly applies in his auditing. (Ducharme can be found in freezone articles and elsewhere if you Google his name.)

In any case, “When in doubt, communicate.”

семь ножей
Guest

marildi,

I read in wwp forums a quote from Rons Org website that they established a branch in Israel, and from all the discussions I have with local Israelians and others, there are only 2 independent groups in Israel, one is small and other is Dror. So if I trust what I read, they are part of Ron’s Org, if I mistake excuse me.

About Excalibur – for me if its not LRH then I don’t want to practice it. I had great experience with LRH tech only back in the time, and that is the only thing I want to receive.

I do think that Dror should follow only LRH, and if they do anything else then LRH, then for me its not worth it and it is a shame.

marildi
Guest

Okay, I understand. That’s your right.

Richard
Guest

Thanks for posting this, Virginia. That Captain Bill guy was all over the place. I scanned over some of the “processes” which are referred to near the end of the article. If somebody figures out how to make it workable with actual stable demonstrable gains I’ll check it out – next lifetime!

It was just a quick glance,15 minutes or so, but it seems he might be calling each process an OT level. Maybe a Captain Biller will show up with a success story. Someone did just that on Mike Rinder’s Terra Cognita post two weeks ago. The beat goes on.

семь ножей
Guest

This is exactly what I am saying. So imagine this invented “OT Levels” that are being delivered under the goose of “Independent Scientologists” in the Dror-Center facilities in Israel. I don’t like that.

семь ножей
Guest

Wow, you really took the time to write this. How come you are really interested in the Israeli field (Shafi Gibon, Dani & Tami Lemberger).

Do you believe that what Dani & Tami are doing is survival for us or not?

I think its getting too extreme (in the negative sense of the word) to do the invented technology of the Ron’s Org.

What is your opinion on that?

Gib
Guest

Hey семь ножей,

I made this post over on Tony Oretga blog today, it something to think about. Shouldn’t all these clears and OT’s who left the COS under DM, shouldn’t they join Ron’s Org or freezone or the Lembergers or Indie in the USA?

Avatar
Gib • an hour ago
Here’s something to think about and include, where are all the “clears” & “OT’s” from day one? Are they still involved or left? Why?

Shouldn’t all these “clears” be on staff helping the Idle Morgue’s reach Old St Hill Size? How come they ain’t?

Some stats, click auditor mag number to see names:

https://www.truthaboutscien

семь ножей
Guest

Gib, it does not matter. Whoever is Clear or OT and stays that way within or out of the Church is fine I guess.

But why should this independent groups turn to be Ron’s Org group – as Ron’s Org is just a lie. How can you call an organization on the name of Ron (L. Ron Hubbard), while you do not apply the original technology of L. Ron Hubbard???

I am telling you, it is a money-machine, which I am not sure how well it goes for them (for Ron’s Org).

You either deliver original standard LRH tech, or you do something totally else (you might as well do Yoga, or go to Christian Church).

So my answer to you is if y

ya\'ll
Guest

It is known that in the broad community of the warriors against the co$ that Dani and Tami Lemberger are just little pawns, and that they are being urged and forced to commit “supressive acts” against co$ and against their own followers.

So I suggest to you my friend to just let go of hurvard technology once and for all, and for sure do not get near the Lembergers.

marildi
Guest

“It is known…”?

Specifically what is known? And who are “they” who know all this? You need to state your sources or it’s just gossip.

Nibster
Guest

Are you speaking about Tony Ortega, Mary Rathbun, Mike Rinder?

Because I am sure these 3 are just using Dani for their own revenues.

Richard
Guest

That was George M. White who used to post as “Path of Buddha” who made that comment on Marty’s blog about two years ago. He also mentioned that Buddha had many enemies. Parents accused him of stealing their sons. The existing religious order hated him for countering their doctrines. He was accused of fathering an illegitimate child.

Buddha knew not all would follow him. He told acolytes going out to spread the word, “Some will listen. Some will come.”

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