Mike Rinder Fully Invalidates the Subject of Scientology

Starting at exactly 47 min and 35 sec, you will hear Mike Rinder, the number 2 or 3 guy in the Church of Scientology since the 1980’s, who was “on the ship” and worked with Hubbard since the 1970’s, completely invalidate the subject of Scientology and back it up with his own personal experience.

This conversation is the first I’ve seen in which Mike Rinder reveals what he really believes about Scientology. As the years rolled on since his departure from the Church, Mike Rinder has said more and more about his own thoughts on Scientology on his blog. From reading his blog, it is pretty clear that he is no longer a Scientologist.

This video is a clear and complete statement of Mike Rinder’s views on the subject. After seeing this, there should be no doubt in anyone’s mind what he thinks about Scientology.

It’s very clear to me now, and has been since years ago when he blew the Indie movement and started his own blog, that Mike Rinder is a very good person who was born into Scientology and literally knew nothing else.

That observation alone, knowing that Mike Rinder ran the OPs as head of OSA for decades, has profound implications for the understanding of human beings for me.

Any person is not just himself – he is also the environment he has to deal with every day.

Sometimes the Internet has too much information. A person like Rinder can make a clear statement like this and it gets lost among all his other writings and videos and the other content he has produced. It is very possible for someone to never see this.

Because of his position in the Church, and all that he has seen and done, this 20 minutes from Mike Rinder is all that is necessary to shut down Scientology forever, and have everyone go home.

I’d like to thank Mike and Aaron for doing these interviews.

To see more, go to Aaron Smith-Levin’s Youtube channel called “Growing Up In Scientology”


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Alice Addertongue

Hmmm Alanzo, a bit sensational to say that he totally invalidated the subject of scientology. I’ll agree what he says fairly completely damns the church, but the church has not practiced scientology to any significant extent since the late 90’s. (Nor does it seem that anyone else has either!)

Your premise, that the lack of a further “bridge” and that the paucity of scientologists displaying the benefits of scientology totally invalidates the subject, makes leaps of “reasoning” unsupported by logic.

Much of scientology works. Much hype obscures this by forcing a comparison between the hype and the actual results. Sure the results don’t match the hype, but beneficial results are possible. Not in the church of course, it has devolved into a purely belief driven cult.

For me the label scientology can disappear for all I care. What is useful no longer needs a label, and the label is part of a mechanism of cult self validation.

There is a richness of ideas in the works of Hubbard ( and those he was inspired and assisted by). Not at all invalidated by the failure of people to successfully implement them.


Alice Addertoungue

(I will grant that the term scientology has pretty much been invalidated as a reference to its origins)


Rinder in that 20 minute segment did say “it’s all bullshit away” while he was explaining the lack of OT9/10 levels.

I realized what Rinder said once I opened my eyes and became unglued from Hubbard’s rhetoric, and compared my observations & what Hubbard taught, to, to lots of people who had gone “clear” and some who have done various OT levels including OT8 and all the L’s. A wide spectum to view upon. It’s all bullshit.


Thanks for posting this video, I hadn’t seen it.

Lone Star
Lone Star

Of course one of the subjects they discussed in this video is how DM must keep coming up with new “orders of magnitude” and “releases” and projects to keep members invigorated and not become tempted to leave. I know that over the past few years quite a few members have left. Both short term and long term members. But I can say that most of the ones who are left in right now are still fired up and “on purpose”. It’s quite amazing. The handful of still-ins I interact with on a fairly regular basis seem to have no idea what the outside world is thinking and has been saying about the cult. I have to hand it to them for their devotion in avoiding “entheta” in the form of “Black PR”.

What really amazes me is how the majority of the still-ins keep buying in to the Ideal Org farce. It’s pretty evident that whenever an Ideal Org has a grand opening there is not an influx of new members. The stats remain down. Waaaaay down. Yet they keep believing in this farce. In Austin they’ve been raising money for about twelve years now for their Ideal Org. A few weeks ago they raised 2 million dollars in one fund raising reg event. I know they still have millions to go.

In Austin’s case they do not have to buy another building because the building they have is large enough and in a great location being right across the street from the University of Texas. (Although these days college student’s ain’t buyin’ what their selling anymore, but it still has the much coveted heavy foot traffic). So all they have to do is renovate the building they have. Twelve years and counting they still probably have years to go. But when they talk about the Ideal Org their eyes light up and their whole countenance brightens. If you put them on the meter at that moment I’m sure it would be “floating”. They have bought into the notion that all other cities with Ideal Orgs are booming. What a grand con DM has pulled off with this Ideal Org scam. Gotta hand it to the little shrimpy creep. Hubbard would be proud. (Or he’d be pissed because after all the Ideal Org is against written policy. But then again, Hubbard was not one to ignore his own policy if it made him an extra buck).

Oh, and the other big thing that excites still-ins is the believe that “Scientology saved the nation of Columbia”. LOL….. They really and truly believe it.

Hip hip hooray!!


I’m supposed to be an OTV. I’m also a trained auditor, FEBC, ORC, SSIII, SHSBC Supervisor, yada, yada yada …


I have no claims to any powers or gains that I got from much more than the comm course and even that is suspect. I get and got more gains by simply living life.

None. None. None of my life’s best experiences were in or due to scientology. It is unfortunate that the promises made about scientology do not exist. A utopian world would be wonderful, but there still has not been a discovery that creates that for someone.

The most unfortunate side effect of all this is that all these years later people continue to attack others in the name of scientology, whether they are in or out.


I agree Valerie,

but what if we substituted the word attack with debate, discuss, or have a conversation about scientology. Just my thoughts.


Hi Alonzo.

I remember you from ESMB and other groups in time period of 8-10 years….


was trying to ask you question about Queen of Indie OSA, but I will wait for one of your posts ,about subject….

Big hello from LRHs Bulgravia.